Reverend Nancy Brink is the current Executive Director of the Fish Interfaith Center at Chapman. She is an ordained minister in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), the same religious group that founded Chapman University. She was a congregational minister for about 30 years before coming to Chapman as the Director of Church Relations and University Chaplain. At the start of this academic year (2023-2024), she was promoted to the new Executive Director of the Fish Interfaith Center.
I met Nancy during my freshman year over Zoom when searching for a Sikh organization on campus. While I was unsuccessful in my search, she invited me to begin attending the weekly Interfaith meetings that Fish hosts with representatives of the different faith organizations on campus. While I have grown used to seeing Nancy most Friday mornings for Interfaith over the last four years, earlier this semester, she invited me and a few other faith leaders of campus clubs to join her in a class called Cultivating Compassion. The name is a bit on the nose, but it was a wonderful experience.
At the start of the interview, we spent a bit discussing the course and how its teaching is interdisciplinary and can benefit anyone in their day-to-day interactions and global relations. Nancy told me she loved the course because it referred to and drew on sources and ideologies that have fueled movements in the past that we have all come to know. Her main two examples were with Dr. King and the Civil Rights Movement and Mahatma Gandhi’s India Independence Movement. While speaking about these movements, their successes, and and their following, she brought my attention to something she noticed that really stood out to her.
She told me that while reflecting on the Black Lives Matter movement as it echoed around the nation and beyond our borders following the death of Georg Floyd, she couldn’t help but think it didn’t have the same echoing and staying power that the Civil Rights Movement had as it didn’t have the same spiritual backing. As a woman connected to faith and who values its guidance, she shared a lens I had never considered before. Despite the fact that I knew Dr. King was a religious leader who would speak of his faith and use its lessons in his sermons and addresses, I never connected the intense relation that the people had to him and the movement with how they may also be connecting on a more spiritual level. Gandhi and King were able to use their faith as motivation, which acted as an additional level of connection between the people and the reason why the movement was necessary.
Nancy explained that the class reminded her of how connected we are, how we are connected through the idea of “Big God” and how we have our own “Retail Versions,” but they all fall under faith and belief in some higher power. Something that really stuck with me was when she explained that “the class had this ability to help cultivate compassion which is incredible and important, but it can help us learn how to withstand the brutality, to help us come together, in spite of the pain, which is so powerful.” Nancy’s main takeaway from the course and how it can relate to peace– peace of mind, peace in personal relations, peace in justice and global relations– was that it teaches us very practical and tangible methods to grow a heart of compassion, compassion for yourself, as well and then for compassion for others. In the end, it’s the way to stop the cycle of reactivity.
The second half of the interview focused on religion’s role in peace. Nancy has visited many places, experienced different faiths and cultures, and has come out of it grounded in her beliefs, so she is appreciative of the differences. When I asked her what she thought the role of religion in peace was, she told me it was “To ground people in the truth that our lives are bigger than just our individual histories and needs.”
She reminded me that we’re all a part of something bigger, even if we don’t necessarily see it or never try to act on it. She was quick to remind me that when we turn our back on the bigger picture, all it truly does is shrink the world. She did counter that by adding that when we try to tap into the larger picture, there is so much possibility and creativity in that world to be seen. When I asked her to expand on that, on the world of creativity and what tapping into it allows someone to do, she explained that the grounding effect of religion in peace and justice is not the doctrine that saves us or helps us; it is the deep and spiritual practice, the prayer, the meditation, that brings us back and reminds us of why we are connected, of how we are connected. It allows us to ground ourselves and keep from lashing out, to remember why we are doing what we’re doing.
She gave an example right after that and asked me what I knew about the William Pettis Bridge and John Lewis. While I was familiar with John Lewis and his role in the Civil Rights Movement, I was unfamiliar with the William Pettis Bridge. Nancy took a moment to explain that day in the movement. When members of the Civil Rights Movement arrive at the bridge, intending to cross in their march only to find the State Troopers waiting. State Troopers then advanced and beat them. John Lewis led that march and led it again a few days later after recuperating from his injuries. Nancy looked at me and asked me to consider: where does that come from?
Where does the drive and ability to rally despite the brutality come from? The marchers had been praying and singing as they prepared and walked toward the bridge they had been taught in the School of Civil Rights. Taught the practices of nonviolence, why it was so important not to respond to violence, and how it unmasks the violence of others.
Toward the end of the interview, we spoke a bit about how religion has been taken and abused as a method by which people separate themselves from others. In Peace Studies, we learned about the concept and practice of othering fairly early, which we expanded on. Religion is meant to connect on the level of spiritual influence. Following my question, Nancy asked me to stop taking notes for a moment and to breathe with her through a meditative exercise where we explored how we feel when we feel so connected to our faiths. It is the joy, wonder, and acceptance that we feel in our faith and communities that can bridge the gaps that some try to widen.
She explained that the feelings I’d shared when I went to the Gurudwara versus the ones Nancy experienced growing up going to Church were not different at all. She explained that it’s not about the doctrine or the stories. It’s about the practice, the service, the familiarity, and “connecting to God, capital G, the one who is above all, the one that echoes across all faiths.”
The most significant takeaway I had following the conclusion of my time with Nancy was that we can find individual peace and a chance for greater unity and understanding by respecting and appreciating the similarities and differences as they all connect us to God or any form of a Higher Power and that it is only to our detriment that is so difficult for us to recognize that on a more regular basis.